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[Hero Balance] Moonton, make Irithel great for once!

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Post time 2020-6-11 03:46 AM | Show all posts |Read mode

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Edited by Ehren23 at 2020-6-10 04:46 PM

As we all know, today MM meta is resumed by 3, maybe 4 heroes: Karrie, Claude, Granger and Kimmy. Irithel is a MM with an weak early game and a strong late game. Even so, the metas apart from having real strong earlys have also strong lates andmatches in ranked are mostly early game oriented, meaning MM like Irithel can't shine properly.That said, i  came with two major ideas and an third optional one:

First and second: Optimize her passive and her ultimate: Her passive as it is right now disfavor her in all ways on early game and we sum up with her 0.8x basic attack speed nerf = uber weak early game. First, let's check how it works now amd then the preview of my idea:

Today: Irithel fire three arrows, each dealing 42% physical atk as damage (126% total) with only the first arrow able to trigger item passives.

I'll use an example with the following scenarios*:

*: All scenarios consider an fictious enemy with 0 def for damage calculation and also no skin bonus.

Level 1: No items or bonus from emblems, just her base 118 phys atk.

With each arrow dealing 42% dmg, we do: 0,42*118 = 49,5 or 49 round down per arrow, meaning 147 damage in the 3 arrows. Although i'm using an example considering an enemy with no def, in real game scenario enemies have some def and as a consequence of firing three arrows, Irithel basic attack face three damage mitigations from enemy def as well amd that's what make her early game so weak. Now, on to the next scenario:

Level 15: Full explosive build + base atk with estimated 800 phys atk:

With each arrow dealing 42% dmg, we have 0,42*800 = 336 per arrow, meaning 1008 damage in all three arrows. Not too shabby, so let's move to the optimized passive:

My idea is: Irithel fire three arrows, each dealing 38% phys atk + (30 + hero level*3), making an total of 114% phys atk + (90 + hero level*9) keeping other features intact like only the first arrow able to trigger item passives. Of course the idea here is not turn her into an OP hero, just an usable one. Let's move to the scenarios:

Level 1: 118 base atk

With the new passive, we have: 0,38*118 + (30 + 1*3) = 77,84 or 77 round down per arrow with 231 total damage. Way better than 147 right? Then, let's see how how it does with the late game scenario:

Level 15: 800 base atk

Now, the truth time, we have: 0,38*800 + (30 + 15*3) = 379 per arrow, meaning 1137 on all arrows. See that although we also see an damage increase in late game output, 1137 vs 1008 doesn't seem big deal considering endgame stats.

Well, i think you guys agree that, by changing irithel basic attack passive, i have to tdjust her ultimate accordingly, so let's move onto it.

Her ultimate today: Explosive arrow with 126% + (30+ skill level*50). As we are talking about ultimates, this time i'll use slightly different early game scenarios:

Level 4: Estimated 140 base physical attack with no other bonus (too lazy to check the real number lol):

We have: 1,26*140 + (30 + 1*50) = 256,4 or 256 round down per blast. Now the full blast:

Level 15: 800 base atk

We have: 1,26*800 + (30 + 3*50) = 1188 per blast.

Considering above numbers, we have an level 4 Irithel with 256 dmg vs "new" Irithel dealing 231 dmg on only basic attack, as for level 15 we have an 1188 blast vs 1137 basic attack sum. Makes no sense keep it that way, so we should adjust to:

New ultimate: Explosive arrow dealing 115% damage, just a single percent extra of the three 38% arrows sum, using as base 0,38* 140+ (30 + 4*3) = 95 per arrow, 285 total damage to reach the ideal skill level multiplier.

Level 4: 140 phys atk

We need to reach an number above 285 on total sum, so i estimate the following formula for ultimate: 115% phys atk+ (100 + skill level*90), so we have: 1,15*140 + (100 + 1*90) = 351 per blast. Guess we found an decent change with 351 vs 256, i think it makes an good enough early with ultimate. Let's see what happens with endgame stats:

Level 15: 800 phys atk

We have then: 1,15*800 + (100 + 3*90) = 1290 per blast. Again, 1290 vs 1188 isn't a big deal change in endgame stats and we reach the objective we want as 1290 > 1137, after all the idea of Irithel ultimate is to make basic attack stronger and we did it.

Another idea for the ultimate is to add also an buff of 10*skill level on movement speed while active since Moonton made her to be faster than other MMs as she can fire while walking and 256 vs 246 base speed of other MMs seem poor difference to me since Irithel only dash skill is her ultimate with 42s/36s/30s cd while granger has an less than 10s cd dash apart from his ultimate fire + dash, karrie can dash every 2/3s with her dash skill and claude can swap position with his "summon" frequently as well.

The third idea will be shown in the next one, but it is something optional for now.

Post time 2020-6-11 04:38 PM | Show all posts
personally i think alot of late game heroes will get changed sooner or later since the goal is to make the games as short as possible for mobile gamers, its my own theory so take it with a grain of salt but keep your hopes up
Post time 2020-6-11 01:17 PM | Show all posts
Ehren23 replied at 2020-6-11 01:00 PM
One more thing, i do support other MM such as Hanabi being buffed as well, its just i dont know he ...

Hanabi is my main hero. Im telling you. Her skill 1 doesn't deserve to be an active skill. It should be added to her Passive.
Post time 2020-6-11 06:51 AM | Show all posts
Ehren have you consider the crit effect of her passive as well. I don't know your explosive build; but if you don't consider crit; it would roughly by double of 1,008 because of berserker fury. Her ultimate I think do need so buffs as well so she could get away. Increased movement speed is good and the decrease armour ratios are decent.
 Author| Post time 2020-6-11 03:46 AM | Show all posts
Now , for the third and last idea: Buff early game 1st phys def debuff without buffing in late game.

Today, her 1st skill apply an little AoE phys def debuff of 6 + (skill level*9) or an set of 15/24/33/42/51/60. -15 def seems meh against enemies in early game. -60 in the other hand is too much, discarding fixed -60 for all levels. So i came up with this:

18 + (skill level*7), having this way: 25/32/39/46/53/60. This way we have decent def debuff since early game with no change with full skill level.

As i said, that one is optional because i think her passive and ultimate need more critical attention from Moonton.
 Author| Post time 2020-6-11 09:22 AM | Show all posts
aznager replied at 2020-6-10 07:51 PM
Ehren have you consider the crit effect of her passive as well. I don't know your explosive build; b ...

No, i do use Berserker fury on my explosive build and all but to calculate critical damage and stuff i think it would take too much longer for me to calculate and explain numbers, so i instead made raw calculations considering enemy def as 0 and no other outside influence such as passives and all in order to "counterbalance" numbers.
It would be too complex to explain in full picture, although you must also consider that we wont meet an enemy hero ingame with 0 def so, if Moonton sees this, i think it could be used more like an "north" than something definitive to do on Irithel.
Post time 2020-6-11 10:18 AM | Show all posts
nah u just dont know iritheal combo with dyyroth can be lethal even to tank coz of skill 1 mm and skill 2 dyrroth easy kill early game disable me iritheal its find coz got mobility.the most problem here is hanabi after they nerf her so much.turn into walking garbage so useless
 Author| Post time 2020-6-11 12:56 PM | Show all posts
Edited by Ncup.Ajh at 2020-6-13 04:09 AM
lightyear replied at 2020-6-10 11:18 PM
nah u just dont know iritheal combo with dyyroth can be lethal even to tank coz of skill 1 mm and sk ...

Yeah, hanabi situation is far more critic.

About the combo, of course its a nice combo, but should a hero be limited by a combo with a specific hero? Many guys just troll if you dont pick the granger/claude/karrie as MM since they are strong since the moment they leave base for the first time. And about mobility: granger has 6s cd dash and ultimate + dash 3 times (with a helluva damage), karrie can dash every 2/3s and stack passive in dashing close enough, claude can change place with dexter frequently, its hard to catch him without hard cc and kimmy who also has walk while firing feature like irithel have far more base movement speed and can be used both ap and ad. I'm not saying irithel is useless, i can use her well. It's just these other MM stand off too much in early game while Irithel stands off in late but few games ever reach late game. I'd rather make irithel and other MM off meta strong than heavy nerf the ones in meta by nerf both hero and items that many other non meta heroes use just because some MM is OP. We don't want to live another season 5 (any MM pick except YSS was considered troll pick in my server)

lightyear replied at 2020-6-10 11:18 PM
nah u just dont know iritheal combo with dyyroth can be lethal even to tank coz of skill 1 mm and sk ...

One more thing, i do support other MM such as Hanabi being buffed as well, its just i dont know her mechanics well to do an solid suggestion about her, that i leave to players who frequently use her and have her as favorite.
Anonymous user  Post time 1970-1-1 08:00 AM
Post time 2020-6-11 01:31 PM | Show all posts
As we know Irithel was late game hero, with Berserker Fury item and Ultimate, she can deal AoE damage with critical, as for that, her early game does not have high damage compare to Karrie and Granger.
Keep notice on Advanced Server, and Thank You for suggestion.
 Author| Post time 2020-6-11 01:53 PM | Show all posts
DennisST replied at 2020-6-11 02:31 AM
As we know Irithel was late game hero, with Berserker Fury item and Ultimate, she can deal AoE damag ...

That's my point. Nowadays 2, maybe 3 out of 10 matches ever reach late game. I know Irithel excels in late game and is par with other MM when you farm enough, and i like it but our games are becoming all the more early game oriented and i think her late game can keep as it is. My suggestion is more to make her early a bit stronger so she wont siffer in the hands of the early game meta that can end matches in less than 10 min even when trying to play safely.
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